If you enjoyed the story on the G-Series 1971 Mopar phantom wing cars in HOT ROD Magazine, you'll enjoy reading this trio of interviews with former Chrysler Special Vehicles Group employees. Not only were they involved with design and development of the never-was '71 wing cars, they were also responsible for the 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona and 1970 Plymouth SuperBird race cars that dominated NASCAR super speedway competition until they were legislated out of existence. If you can't beat `em, outlaw `em! -Steve Magnante
Larry Rathgeb: In charge of stock car engineering
Q: What was your job title during your involvement with the Charger Daytona and SuperBird years?
A: I was a design development team supervisor for the Chrysler corporation.
Q: When did you join Chrysler? Were did you come from?
A: Out of the womb (laughs). Actually I began at Chrysler in 1958. I went to the School of Mines in Missouri and studied metallurgy. I only had one interview and that was with Chrysler, and I was accepted into the Chrysler Institute. I graduated in 1960 and I wanted to work in design but as close as I could get was engineering operations. It was kind of an organization that followed the design aspect of making an automobile. I wrote a monthly booklet to show the progress of the designs and was also involved in the timing of the prints out of design and into production. This was an in-house publication. I was later asked if I would be willing to work with the suspension design area that was called "car handling components design". I was involved in front suspension. I was only there a short time when Chrysler racing boss Ronnie Householder came in and asked if he could hire our drafting time. He then dropped a bunch of parts on our table and wanted us to somehow get them into a Plymouth. These turned out to be Pontiac NASCAR parts and he wanted them copied so Ray Nichels Engineering could make them for use on the NASCAR Plymouths. After the NASCAR wing car program I handled the short track Kit Car program. We officially got out of racing when Richard Petty left to go to Oldsmobile then Pontiac in 1978. I went back to an engineering job in 1979 and was a program manager for the K car. Later I worked on a lot of overseas programs in Italy, Austria, France, Germany and England. In the early nineties I worked for Richard Petty and from there as a contractor for the Viper group where I did quite a bit of their front suspension alignment work both in service and production. Today I am retired and work my farm here in White Cloud, MI raising deer, turkeys and grouse. I also shoot a lot of skeet trap and sporting clays.
Q: When NASCAR rules for 1971 barred the combination of wing cars and engines over 305 cubic inches, how did you feel?
A: I was a little hurt that the Hemi powered wing cars couldn't go on and race. I just looked forward to the next move.
Q: When the NASCAR edict came down, is it safe to say that work on the 1971, or G-Series wing cars, came to an abrupt halt?
A: Well I couldn't really say. I wasn't really involved with the 1971development program. I was more involved with the current racing activities. The person you need to ask about that would be Gary Romberg. He was the guy in charge of aerodynamics and he was doing all the development work trying to get a better car than we had in 1970. George Wallace and I always felt that we had to do something to improve each year, and yes, we were looking for something better than the 1970 car and Gary was the guy that was doing the work on it. Until such time as he had something positive, we didn't really get involved.
Q: Photos show rear window louvers on the 3/8 scale G-Series wind tunnel test models. Did they show any advantage to a bare window?
A: I couldn't tell you. Again, Romberg would be your source for that.
Q: How much reserve power was left in the 426 Hemi for future increases by the end of the 1970 NASCAR race season?
A: The way we all felt at that time was we really didn't want to do any more to increase power unless it was exceptionally safe. We were running around 585 to 595 horsepower in our race engines. Yeah, we had some 600 and 610 horsepower motors but they weren't very reliable. We felt it was better to use the horsepower required than the horsepower available to win races.
Q: There are reports of a Charger Daytona running as fast as 245 mph at the 5-mile Chelsea, MI Chrysler test track. Could this be true?
A: I don't know that it's really true. 204 mph is about the best that I can recall. We never really ran the car with full horsepower. We always ran it with reduced horsepower. I don't know that a 245 mph speed would be possible.
Q: Do you remember your feelings about the proposed G-Series wing car?
A: I saw a lot of the sketches that were made at the time and sat in on all of the meetings. The surprising thing to everybody was that it was not as good as the '69 car regardless of what kind of change they made in the configuration. I guess my feeling was, and I am not an aerodynamicist-you'd have to ask Gary Romberg whether this is true or not- but I always felt that it was because of the height of the car. We were stuck with a 6-1/2 inch ground clearance and with that, I don't think that anything more could have been done with the topside until we got the car down. If we had it down as far as NASCAR allows them to be today, it might have responded to some of those changes. Some of those G-Series 3/8 scale test models had the bottom of the windshield pulled all the way out half way to the nose of the car and it never did any good.
Q: When the 426 Hemi was discontinued by Chrysler following the 1971 model year, were you guys in the NASCAR race group surprised?
A: We figured it was going to happen. NASCAR killed the Hemi in 1965 then made us run a reduced displacement in 1966. We knew something was happening along those lines, we knew that NASCAR was attempting to get the manufacturers out of the picture because they didn't want us to control the racing activities. We were the only ones putting money into it at the time. When TV came along, why it was a different situation and they were happy to get us out.
Q: When it came to the Ford competition, what are your feelings on the Boss 429 engine?
A: We were concerned to the point that we were developing another engine to face it. It was another Hemi with overhead cams. I used to go down and follow the development of that engine in the design aspect. I remember going down to the old Chrysler Institute building and they had a setup there for a group of people who were working on that particular project but it never made production.
Q: How about the Ford Torino King Cobra. With its drooped snout, what did you think of it?
A: We had spies in the industry, just like they had for us, and we were aware of some of the developments like that car. Though we didn't know about the 1969 Torino Talladega until Riverside, when we saw it there. That was a surprise to us. George Wallace and I got concerned and came away from the race and got started on the wing cars. Even with the '69 Charger 500's flush grille and backlight, we couldn't have run successfully against the Talladega. The Fairlane was a physically smaller car. We knew we were almost there with the 500, but we knew that with something a little better we could beat `em. And that's where the Charger Daytona comes in.
Q: Who made the decision to terminate further G-Series wing car development after those first six to eight weeks of work in the Wichita State wind tunnel?
A: I suppose it was a joint decision between the divisions and Dodge general manager Bob McCurry. He handled the purse strings corporate wise. The divisions could do as they pleased with their money, as long as he approved it.
Q: We know from the numerous wing tunnel photographs that 3/8 scale models of G-Series wing cars existed, but were any larger models ever built?
A: I could not tell you for certain but I don't think there was anything built larger than the 3/8 scale model. You'd have to ask Romberg.
George Wallace: In charge of Hemi race engine development
Q: How deep was your involvement with the G-Series 1971 wing car development work?
A: It was minimal. I first saw them in Frank Moriarty's book Super Cars.
Q: How close to its maximum output capacity was the 426 Hemi in NASCAR? Was there much left in reserve?
A: With a few minor exceptions, the sanctioning bodies limited the Hemi to one four barrel carburetor even though the production car had two. That was about 40 horsepower there. There was a period of about six months when NASCAR let us run the two four barrels, but they were trying to keep the table as level as possible and thought one four barrel was enough for the Hemi. Of course, we had to get the power and 500 mile durability. With what we know today, I'm sure we could have gotten al lot more power out of the engine.
Q: In 1971 when the Street Hemi was discontinued by Chrysler, were you shocked?
A: No we had expected it sooner that it happened because it was obvious the market wasn't able to sustain such high performance cars due to rising insurance premiums as well as tightening federal emissions standards. There had been a replacement called the ball-stud Hemi which was in the prototype stage. It was going to replace the Street Hemi but it was also cancelled with the Street Hemi. The company realized the cost and market potential didn't meet the anticipated return.
Q: Dick Landy has one of the ball-stud Hemis, doesn't he?
A: Yes he does. It mysteriously appeared at his doorstep in a box. Somebody who I will not name wanted to make sure the last remaining piece of the several dozen built didn't get scrapped.
Q: Did the ball-stud show great potential as a replacement for the 426 Street Hemi?
A: It was probably a step backwards in power but was a lot cheaper. The layout was basically like the big block Chevy. The two rocker shafts on the regular Hemi were quite expensive to manufacture so we took inspiration from the Chevrolet ball stud arrangement with stamped steel rocker arms. They allow you to put the valves in the chambers at an angle without having to have a rocker shaft in there. By the way, the new 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi Magnum engines have returned to the double rocker shaft layout.
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